Obvious cautions about possible bias for both sources, but this at least explains the background to the march.
Chairwoman
· 2 years ago
100 people? That's not a march. it's a stroll :-)
rantsi
· 2 years ago
a daughter of a pardhan supposedly converted to islam. march organised from baba deep singh gurdwara, which organises khalistan conferences. marchers want to stop islamic evangelism in birmingham which is on the rise. bottled up reaction to islamic dawah and missionary activity in birmingham at colleges and schools.
jamal
· 2 years ago
THe girl is entitled to convert, and what a good choice she made.
The fact that people are marching against it shows the deep divisions in our society.
Do I hear anybody saying the Sikhs are WRONG to march???????
.....Silence. ....
Suzzy
· 2 years ago
This is the best choice that anybody can make Jamal
Muslim apostates cast out and at risk from faith and family. While Christians who turn to Islam are feted, the 200,000 Muslims who turn away are faced with abuse, violence and even murder
jamal can I hear you saying the death threats and violence that the hundreds of thousands of sensible and brilliant apostates who reject Islam in Britain are wrong? ......Hmmmmm.....Silence......
Gibs
· 2 years ago
I think there should be a specific "Freedom Of Religion Law" which specifically states the following:
1) Every adult person has the right to determine his or her own faith (or lack of faith).
2) NO other person has the right to demand that any other adult must be of a specific faith.
3) The government will NOT determine what faith a specific adult is or should be.
4) Every adult is free to convert to another religion (or to atheism) at any time.
All non EU immigrants to this country should be made to sign a declaration accepting this law as a condition of entry.
inders
· 2 years ago
^ they'd have to change some pretty fundamental laws of the country to incorperate that....
see: catholic barr on monarchy.
Suzzy
· 2 years ago
Silence from Jamal......I guess it proves he agrees with abuse, violence and murder of those who dump Islam.... after all Islam does preach the death penalty for those who do that, what a religion of peace and tolerance.....
The true face is revealed of jamal and other islamists..... no support for the oppressed men and women who dump islam.... what a tragedy
Osman
· 2 years ago
Islam is not monolithic, and it doesn't necessarily preach death for apostasy depending on your interpretation and the historical context you apply.
Anyway, I can't see how it's strictly relevant about knowledge of the march yesterday.
baba
· 2 years ago
i been in this march on sat, we were around 300 instead of 100. its not we talkig about quantity we talking about how fake and full of lie islam is.
Don
· 2 years ago
osman,
Not strictly relevant, but given the issue of conversion/coercion, not strictly irrelevant. Anyway, hard facts are not available, it could yet be a personal thing which other people with fiery agendas should just stay the hell out of. Let's hope we don't get another Lozells.
inders,
Catholicism is out, but Aum Shinrikyo would be legal, right?
Kulvinder
· 2 years ago
Great comments guys...
Muzumdar
· 2 years ago
Catholicism is out, but Aum Shinrikyo would be legal, right?
Legally, you must be Church of England Protestant to sit on the throne of Britain.
Don
· 2 years ago
Thanks, Muzumdar. I should have known that.
Vikrant
· 2 years ago
Actually when i used to be in Leicester there was a case of one Gujju Hindu girl who got involved with a Muslim chap. When her parents found out; she claimed that her Muslim bf tried to brainwash her towards converting to Islam. Turned out that she'd simply made that allegation up to deflect attention from her "sin" of having courted a Muslim.
Sunny
· 2 years ago
Ok, I wanted more info on the march, not who's bloody religion is better.
ZinZin
· 2 years ago
The protesters carried banners calling for an end to "extremist behaviour".
An armed gang smashed its way into a house in the Birmingham suburb of Erdington in search of a teenage Sikh girl whom, it is suspected, they intended to force to convert to Islam.
The girl had been reported missing from her family home in West Bromwich a few days earlier. She is now under police protection.
“We would like to reassure the community that this lady is safe and well,” a spokesman for the West Midlands Police said.
An investigation was launched on May 25 following the aggravated burglary in Erdington when masked men broke into the house and threatened the occupants with weapons, possibly believing the girl was staying there. Police said no one was injured in the incident. “We are conducting inquiries into the motive for this attack,” the spokesman said. “We are not ruling the possibility this may be linked to a report received concerning the whereabouts of an 18-year-old female from West Bromwich, who was reported missing by her family. Her family are clearly concerned about her welfare as are the wider communities.”
A spokesman for Birmingham City Council said: “We are working closely with the police to deal with a number of sensitive issues being raised by members of the community and will be working together with other interested parties to consider the wider and longer term implications for the city.”
jamal
· 2 years ago
Suzzy,
Intrestingly you instantly referred toapostasy which has nothing to do with this article, thread, post, etc.
Why is that?
Muzumdar
· 2 years ago
Sunny
I wanted more info on the march
Like what? A tiny number of Sikhs got together to protest against 'alleged forced conversions'. End of.
Jamal
Intrestingly you instantly referred to apostasy which has nothing to do with this article, thread, post, etc.
Jamal, judging by your website, I gather that you are (a) a champaign Islamist and (b) a bit dim.
Let me help you out: apostasy is not exclusive to Islam or Muslims.
Muzumdar
· 2 years ago
Has the Taliban arrived in Birmingham?
In short: no.
The Taleban were/are an orthodox Sunni Muslim organisation operating in Afghanistan and its border with Pakistan.
When in power, they did things like destroy ancient Buddhist statues, make non-Muslims wear special clothing and relieve people of their heads. Chuck in a bit of stoning to death, chopping of hands and rape and this, in a nutshell, is the Taleban.
What any of this has to do with three random Sikh men breaking and entering into a Birmingham slum house I do not know. Care to enlighten me?
inders
· 2 years ago
^ some people are declaring themselves religious policemen ?
(just a suggestion)
Sunny
· 2 years ago
Jamal - I think her point is that while people such as yourself celebrate people converting into Islam, you're happy suggesting death for those converting out of Islam. You either believe in freedom to choose religion or you don't.
Anyway, that is NOT what this topic is about.
Interesting story Sumayyah.
Muzumdar
· 2 years ago
Inders
That supposition is mere speculation and hardly constitutes comparison with the Taleban, who were an organised government that implemented policy after policy of pure repugnance.
Are you saying three random Sikhs = the Taleban?
inders
· 2 years ago
Who were the taliban composed of ?
Ordinary people is my supposition. Who started off a grass roots revolution which then led to the Taliban (with a capital T).
If you take this view then these sikhs are no different to the taliban, imposing their 'sharia' parallel to the legitimate law.
How are these 3 sikhs, random ? Was there a random 100 sikhs marching today ? Were lots drawn ?
Muzumdar
· 2 years ago
inders
Who were the taliban composed of ?
The Taleban top brass were composed of feudal war lords and well known Afghan clansmen.
Not 'ordinary people' you come across every day.
If you take this view then these sikhs are no different to the taliban, imposing their ’sharia’ parallel to the legitimate law.
Even if you do 'take this view' then the parallel still falls pathetically short of any semblance of reality. Vigilantiism and the imposition of a religious law are two separate things.
How are these 3 sikhs, random?
Random in the sense of we know who the Taleban were; an organised, brutal and unequivocally Islamic government.
By comparison, these are just three Singhs.
Sumayyah Evans
· 2 years ago
Muzumdar
I wasn't saying that the Taliban have come to Birmingham - I have simply posted an article about current events in Birmingham that is from the National Secular Society website.
inders
· 2 years ago
yes yes, the taliban had 3 heads, were 9 feet tall and ate little girls for breakfast.
Alternativly, they were a populist movement supported by the majority (initialy) because they stood for a heady mix of self governance and theocratic utopia.
Interestingly enough, in gudwara's up and down the West Midlands and the Gudwaras the same people who hand out flyers proclaiming that people's children are being raped they also hand out flyers about self governance and theocratic utopia.
Sunny
· 2 years ago
Inders you're talking to a brick wall. Muzumdar has wet dreams about Khalistan, I don't think he will be taken in by your arguments. Given that many of the Khalistanis pre and post-1984 tried to enforce their own law and still try to, my feeling is that while they openly try to distance themselves from the Taliban - those guys are probably not far from a rough model of what hardcore Khalistanis strive for.
Muzumdar
· 2 years ago
Inders
You are a genius. You have found the key to unlock the whole puzzle.
Unconfirmed reports that three unknown Sikh men who allegedly broke into a house who supposedly have links to a number of unspecified Gurdwaras in the West Midlands who may or may not have links to the 1980s struggle for Khalistan who arbitrarily hand out literature speaking of rape, theocracy and utopia...
All of this, of course, equates said three men with the former government of Afghanistan.
I think that the FBI, CIA, MI5, West Midlands police and the government should immediately be informed of your findings and you should be awarded an OBE or a life peerage.
I salute you.
Muzumdar
· 2 years ago
Sunny
You make a point that has been made ad nauseum: Khalistanis are a Sikh version of the Taleban.
It is an inescapable fact that some Sikh groups (the Babbar Khalsa most notoriously) wanted a hardcore Sikh theocracy, something which I deplore. This is still far removed from a comparison of the Taleban IMHO.
But let us not digress.
jamal
· 2 years ago
Sunny, thats total rubbish. Ive not suggested death for apostasy and you know it. If you even look into the rulings on it youll see theres more too it then just defecting from Islam.
Anyway, if this girl chooses islam its here choice and if she chooses to remain a sikh its her choice. Neither side should be compelling her.
If she was being forced by Muslims youd be up in arms, so lets have a little consistency now its seeks doing the forcing and marching.
As you said, "You either believe in freedom to choose religion or you don’t".
So should she have the choice to become/remain a Muslim and are these Sikhs wrong in marching against her use of her freedom of choice?
Sunny
· 2 years ago
Jamal - of course I'm against anyone, whether they be Sikh, Hindu or Muslim, taking the law into their own hands. And yes, I fully support the girl's right to convert if that is what she wants. People should be free to convert out or into whatever religion or be an atheist if they want.
youll see theres more too it then just defecting from Islam. What does that mean?
I'm not interested in this incident as to what te girl did... I'm interested in knowing who organised the march and what the truth of the matter is.
bill
· 2 years ago
>Legally, you must be Church of England Protestant to sit on the throne of Britain.
Nope. You can't be a Roman Catholic nor married to one (George IV nearly fell foul of this until the marriage was forcibly dissolved by his father). That's all. The C of E is, after all, both a Catholic and Protestant church due to a bit of canny compromising from Elizabeth I. Moreover, the monarch 'changes' religion when in Scotland to become figurehead of the Presbyterian Kirk.
More here on the Act of Settlement, seems reasonably accurate by Wiki standards.
Only a few hardcore nutcases would defend this law now and since it's not really an issue (unless Charles or William converts, and that's not very likely - Charles seems more interested in Islam and Greek Orthodoxy, neither of which fall under under constitutional bar) no one's got round to changing it.
That said, it is unfair, and does piss off a few Catholics. The religious freedom bill suggested earlier in the thread does seem like a good idea, however. It could also, as another commentator suggested, be a good device for changing the Act of Succession.
>This is assuming we don't get a republic, my favoured option. Since there's no real demand for one, I'm happy to put up with dear old queenie.
Muzumdar
· 2 years ago
jamal (even your name is a cliche)
In Sunny's defence (if you know me at all, this is most unlike me), you are misinterpreting him. However, given that you are clearly mentally challenged let me, once again, explain things to you.
if this girl chooses islam its here choice and if she chooses to remain a sikh its her choice.
Sunny didn't even dispute this view. Didn't even mention it.
If she was being forced by Muslims youd be up in arms
Yes. So would I and so would most other people. Wouldn't you?
You either believe in freedom to choose religion or you don’t
Sunny does. This is quite clear.
So should she have the choice to become/remain a Muslim and are these Sikhs wrong in marching against her use of her freedom of choice?
At least have the decency to read the thread. They were not marching against 'freedom of choice'. They were marching against 'alleged forced conversions' and 'aggressive Islamic evangelising'.
Why is propagating other religions prohibited in Islamic societies/countries/kingdoms? Are you that insecure?
jamal
· 2 years ago
Sunny,
The ruling on penalties for apostasy is not based upon the person defecting from Islam alone. In accordance with religious text and correct islamic jurisprudence, there are other conditions that must be met for a punishment, particularly death, to be handed down. Then there is the fact that there is mush disagreement over even this and many are of the opinion that it is actually Allah that must judge and punish one for this rather then man.
In other words, those that say apostasy is punishable by death are mistaken as there is no clear evidence of this being correct.
Im glad you support the girls right to convert, as do I (if this is what she has done). I think in considering the reasoning behind the march, this would include undeerstanding the actions of the girl and her reasons.
I suspect we will find that the reasons for the march and what the girls actually did is far different from what has been reported.
jamal
· 2 years ago
They were marching against ‘alleged forced conversions’
well if you read the article above youll read "a teenaged Sikh woman who is said to have DECIDED to convert to Islam.” Even if she was forced, since the police are involved, what would a silly march by 100 people aim to achieve?
‘aggressive Islamic evangelising’.
what does that even mean. i live in a mainly non-christian area and today the preist from the local chuch pulled up on my road with a crowd of followers, handing out red baloons and shouting through a foghorn. there was no march against it.
Refresh
· 2 years ago
Summayah Evans, post and link really does make this whole thing a farce.
Here we have a story where an armed gang breaks into a house in search of a girl. The Secular Society presumes it to be muslims in search of someone to convert; yet everyone else seems pretty sure that it was Sikhs who went in search of the girl.
When the facts may well be, and which may come out months later, are probably a boy & girl having fallen in love and nowhere to go or hide.
As for the Secular Society's post - its quite despicable in how they're reporting - included within an inference of paedophilia. Did anyone notice?
Couldn't get worse could it? A 'rational' organisation clearly feeling there is no need for facts when myths are there to be created.
Jamal - I wish you could have attempted to address the issues in your opening shot - which are almost entirely to do with truth and lies. And whatever flows from them in the current climate. Not waving flags. Its not a football match.
sextfanny
· 2 years ago
As usual it's become a Islam bashing thread. The topic is Sikhs marching becuase someone converted to a different religion. Not Taliabn, CIA, OBL and other nonsense.
sonia
· 2 years ago
this is boring, far more interesting is post of summayah's on Ed Husain
I wonder if i could get 100 people to march in protest at people converting to Toryism?...thought not.
Strange thing - religion - but I suppose you have to find other ways to defend something when it is not based on any evidence.
ally
· 2 years ago
This might be a really ignorant question, but could someone please explain how a forced conversion actually works? Are you held down and have the Sikhness cut out of you and be given an Islamic Replacement Patch instead? It's bizarre.
Or is all this just code for 'one of our girls has been shagging one of their boys' ?
Refresh
· 2 years ago
Ally, the whole thing is a farce.
At any other time this would make a fine Bollywood movie!
Kulvinder
· 2 years ago
Or is all this just code for ‘one of our girls has been shagging one of their boys’ ?
Pretty much a code for that
The 'funniest' comment i've ever had in relation to these types of instances was a few years ago when similar 'outrage' was expressed over another conversion. A friend of a friend who'd normally be fairly vitriolic about the whole thing was surprisingly subdued, when i asked him why his responce was
'she was a munter'
which more or less sheds light on the entire thing.
Sunny
· 2 years ago
There is also the misogyny - the implication that women cannot think or take care of themselves.
You will only ever see men taking part in such demonstrations.
ChrisC
· 2 years ago
I have just looked at Jamal's blog. It is brilliant. But I can't decide whether it is a spoof or serious?!
Suzzy
· 2 years ago
As expected, jamal and his like have shown that they support the death penalty for all those enlightened people who were born Muslim and dump Islam. I think that this is an issue that needs to be addressed, their human rights abuses, and the silence of the Jamals of the world. I also think other muslims like ally and refresh need to address this issue, but doubt they will as they support that kind of human rights abuse.
Alex
· 2 years ago
Or is all this just code for ‘one of our girls has been shagging one of their boys’?
Hey, I've always suspected this is what the Keighley BNP/"Grooming" thing really was.
Soso
· 2 years ago
Islam is not monolithic, and it doesn’t necessarily preach death for apostasy depending on your interpretation and the historical context you apply.
Osman, immediately after the prophets's death many Arab tribes revolted....so loved was Mohammed.
They were only put down by Abu Bakr after two years of bloodshed.
These wars are called the wars of the Apostates, and they set the tone for all that followed.
Islam isn't monolithic, but that's where all it's pretty coloured threads lead back to; a tapestry-decked room with no exit door.
No way over it, around it, or under it.
Jagdeep
· 2 years ago
I love the comedy of one of the signs on the stroll, 'Sikhs will not tolerate extremism', unless it's from them!
This rabble are from a tiny Gurdwara at the top end of Soho Road, opposite the Lidl store, who are on a mission to be fools. I wouldnt pay attention. Sikh Fed types throwing toys out of the pram again.
Jagdeep
· 2 years ago
Actually Alex, quite disturbingly, the Yorkshire grooming thing is true, that the BNP took advantage of it shows how insidious the whole issue is.
sid
· 2 years ago
But yes, I agree, they’re not as bad as Muslim fundamentalists. OK? Happy now?
Muslim Fundamentalists aka Salafists are not necessarily pro-terrorism as Islamic Jihadists or "Islamists" are more likely to be. I've been trying to get this nomenclatural difference across for years. But Shiv Malik does a good job of the definitions in this article.
sid
· 2 years ago
Can we have a sing-along now?
Now, the world don't move to the beat of just one drum, What might be right for you, may not be right for some. A man is born, he's a man of means. Then along come two, they got nothing but their jeans.
But they got, Diff'rent Strokes. It takes, Diff'rent Strokes. It takes, Diff'rent Strokes to move the world.
Jagdeep
· 2 years ago
Whatchoo talkin' 'bout Willis?
ally
· 2 years ago
@ Muzumdar & Suzzy -
For the record, I'm a hardcore bacon-munching, gingerheaded, atheistic repository (or possibly suppository) of decadence, immorality and sin.
I only hang PP for all the sexy chicks. I'm hoping one or two of them might fancy a bit of conversion on the side.
(You might think I'm joking, but my missus is currently banged up in a virtual bungalow with Katy for 13 weeks. I need to take my chances where I find them.)
Jagdeep
· 2 years ago
I only hang PP for all the sexy chicks.
You've come to the right place.
sonia
· 2 years ago
thats an interesting article you've linked to sid
Jagdeep
· 2 years ago
I linked to that article Sid linked to in another thread the other day already sonia! You didnt congratulate me then why not? Favouritism I suppose.
Yes it is a good article as well as being quite sad.
sid
· 2 years ago
It's actualy superb sonia. Maudlin but without the bathos, makes for an insightful but somewhat depressing article.
Twining or Black in Blue
· 2 years ago
So a march did take place? Is this alleged forcing of conversion to Islam alleged or is it real, i.e. is it happening in Uni.’s and colleges? And if it is why do these people feel the need to seek others to convert? If people are selling their faith in order to convert others then these people I feel are filled with Supremacy theory.
Whilst I respect the choice to convert but often people are nudged into conversion I feel, so really the question is, is it a choice or a push or pull? You are who you are and conversion, though, in my opinion, is not real as such, people may do it, but you can't change who you are.
Jamal's words amaze me, mostly I juste feel they are fuelled with extremism. Does it really matter that one is Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, White or Black? Conversion is a fallacy, insecurity. I note one White female that converted, and she was, I believe preaching hatred. Now, that's no good. I urge people not to take the law into their own hands.
sonia
· 2 years ago
you're right sid - i would say it provides an insightful analysis and is spot on with the intergenerational and cultural analysis. like the whole being punjabi in a mirpuri area etc.
makes a lot of sense also given what i saw at uni
jamal
· 2 years ago
"As usual it’s become a Islam bashing thread. The topic is Sikhs marching becuase someone converted to a different religion. Not Taliabn, CIA, OBL and other nonsense."
Agreed!
Sunny
· 2 years ago
There's no point talking to Muzumdar. He's officially banned. When he occasionally says something intelligent, I let the comment slide.
And Jamal only exists to find examples of Islamophobia. After all, he found 'Zion' in the Olympics logo.
sid
· 2 years ago
No sextfanny & jamal, it's a reactionary-tribalist-interpretation-of-religion-bashing thread. And if you can't tell the difference between that and religion, in general, then you're fux0red.
nobodyshero
· 2 years ago
Lets not blow this out of all contents to fit our reality. The 3 individuals who allegedly broke in to the house in birmingham were not the religious police but family of the 18 year old who had gone missing for what ever reason.
lithcol
· 2 years ago
Get a grip you marching idiots. She is as far as can be ascertained a young woman who has made a particular decision. As far as I am aware you can believe in fairies at the bottom of your garden or any other nonsense. Mind your own business wankers and let the young woman decide what she wants.
Refresh
· 2 years ago
Sunny
"There’s no point talking to Muzumdar. He’s officially banned. When he occasionally says something intelligent, I let the comment slide."
Either he is banned or he is not. Letting comments through because you are happy with them is dangerous. The risk is of course he might end up being perceived as talking for you - an extreme side of you of course.
Muzumdar
· 2 years ago
The risk is of course he might end up being perceived as talking for you
Why?
lithcol
· 2 years ago
What are these primitives about? I believe this or that.I change my beliefs. None of your fucking business. I live my life, you live yours.
Ash
· 2 years ago
From what i heard, the girl was going out with a white guy from uni/college, both converted & she left home, i'm assuming because of what her parents might do/react. But she's with the police now, so if her conversion was in any way against her will, surely she's in the best position to escape, the reason such a big deal is being made of it is because supposedly she's the daughter of one of the main guys involved with the gudwara on soho rd. As for the 3 who raided the house, can't say i blame them, if she was my sister, i'd do the same & a hell of a lot more, don't know what their intensions were but most likely to make sure she was safe, what with all this hype & i say hype regarding forced conversions.....
Refresh
· 2 years ago
Ally, just spotted your #56. I don't think you have to declare your life story - just sounding reasonable is enough to come across as muslim - especially where those two are concerned - therefore worthy of abuse and possibly lynching.
Who'd have thought we'd end up with home-nurtured fascists crying out for freedom?
Twining or Black in Blue
· 2 years ago
I don't think this is about bashing Islam Jamal, and I have repeatedly been bashed by some extremist followers of Islam who refuse to acknowledge that others do exist, and that others are actually equal, others as in men and women and people of different faiths.
anu
· 2 years ago
I think people on this discussion do not understand the severity of this. Firstly a girl has converted from one of the new age religions which promotes peace and equality to another religion (in this case islam). My worry is why this is happening.
And also i worry about Islamist evangelism. It is a rising problem and think it should not be tolerated. You dont see Buddhists going around converting people or others from other religions, why do Muslims?
Don
· 2 years ago
anu,
As far as I'm aware, only Christianity and Islam proseletyze at all. The other major religions don't seem to want converts.
Jai
· 2 years ago
Sid,
I've got to join the bandwagon and sincerely thank you for posting the link to Shiv Malik's article in your comment #53.
It's absolutely superb -- and yes, also very sad. The article should be required reading for anyone wanting to understand what motivated the 7/7 bombers and what drives many modern-day Islamic extremists in the UK who are from a 2nd-generation British Pakistani background.
It also makes your heart break for their bewildered families.
OWMMS
· 2 years ago
Me too. I'm really pleased I read that article. Tragic but fascinatingly important.
curious?
· 2 years ago
forced conversions don't really happen here.
groomed conversions by coercion do
Jagdeep
· 2 years ago
Who’d have thought we’d end up with home-nurtured fascists crying out for freedom?
They've been around for about 17 years now --- they are called Islamist fundamentalists and they blow themselves up on buses and trains and lots of people are soft, tacit apologists for them Refresh.
By the way, Islamophobia watch is pretty demented --- they've actually featured Sunny as an Islamophobic bigot too I think. Wankers.
Jagdeep
· 2 years ago
^^^ whoops wrong thread.
Refresh
· 2 years ago
Jagdeep - I can't agree that Islamophobia Watch is "pretty demented". I think it generally collects material. You can make your judgement on each item.
Also go look at Searchlight.
Refresh
· 2 years ago
Jagdeep, Which thread are we on today?
L Ron Hubbard
· 2 years ago
The other major religions don’t seem to want converts.
Come try my stress tester...
nothappy
· 2 years ago
i got a feeling that World War 3 will happen due to Islam.
convert or die. WTF
fuck islam
· 2 years ago
fuck islam and piss on this fucking allah Islam should die, and muslim people should be beheaded
Jo bole so Nihaal
douglas clark
· 2 years ago
So, in Sunnys absence, who is monitoring the site ^ ?
greatness
· 2 years ago
"fuck islam" is just pissed off coz i fucked his mum last nite. dnt worry, ure sista'll get a turn soon. i promise. wink wink. wat bullshit religion do u belong 2 by the way? if its hinduism, i got one thing to say:
HANUMAN IS A MACHOD
Martin
· 2 years ago
Around 800 AD a pig raped a women and the prophet mohammed was born. Mohammed also like to rape pigs and hear them squeel, but in order to save face, he became a child molester instead. That is why so many muslim men are pedophiles. The wife beating child moilsters have small dicks and are never happy hurting women , and so they must set off bombs around children to get their kicks. Islam sucks shit. May the prophet mohammed suck pig dick in HELL. May the prophet mohammed suck shit through a colapsable paper straw in hell. Islam sucks.
amrit
· 2 years ago
The BNP reported this story and used it to demonise Muslims
Greatness I don’t know who you are but if you’re a Muslim then please stop what your doing, in the Quran its says “Call to the way of your lord with wisdom and the best of arguments” and in the time of the prophet his companion Abu bakr out of anger said to the idol worshippers “suck the (sexual organ) of Uzzah (uzzah was a idol that was worshipped) and the prophet rebuked him saying do not revile their gods as they will then revile allah. As you can see people are now insulting allah and his messenger on this thread, I can appreciate your angry, your not the only one, if you want to do something to defend Islam then seek knowledge and use that knowledge in your arguments (Wisdom and the best of arguments).
As for anyone else, cheap insults don’t add strength to your arguments, so if there is to be a sincere discussion then it should be based on real arguments with etiquette of civilised debate.
douglas clark
· 2 years ago
Martin,
You are really a fucked up person. You do know that, don't you?
Anyway, are you a God fearing Christian? I think we ought to be told.
This is a thread that has descended into ignorance, stupidity and Martin.
sonia
· 2 years ago
it certainly has! heh :-)
Whateva
· 2 years ago
Fuck Islam, fuck Allah, and his fucking i dont know 12 prostitutes its shit religion. Allah is not a god he is a satan living in hell, and a real example of evil. So to spread peace all muslims should, and should be killed. All non muslim countries should unite, and bomb all the fuckin muslim countries in the world, and kill each and every shemale muslims.
diya
· 2 years ago
WHATEVA LET ME TELL U ONE THING THAT ALL THE NON MUSLIMS SHOULD GO TO HELL AFTER DEATH AND U BAUSTARD WILL SEE WHEN UR DIRTY SOUL WILL LEAVE U.BAUSTARD
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http://tinyurl.com/yv6gyr
http://tinyurl.com/27ueo5
Obvious cautions about possible bias for both sources, but this at least explains the background to the march.
The fact that people are marching against it shows the deep divisions in our society.
Do I hear anybody saying the Sikhs are WRONG to march???????
.....Silence. ....
Muslim apostates cast out and at risk from faith and family. While Christians who turn to Islam are feted, the 200,000 Muslims who turn away are faced with abuse, violence and even murder
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/articl...
1) Every adult person has the right to determine his or her own faith (or lack of faith).
2) NO other person has the right to demand that any other adult must be of a specific faith.
3) The government will NOT determine what faith a specific adult is or should be.
4) Every adult is free to convert to another religion (or to atheism) at any time.
All non EU immigrants to this country should be made to sign a declaration accepting this law as a condition of entry.
see: catholic barr on monarchy.
The true face is revealed of jamal and other islamists..... no support for the oppressed men and women who dump islam.... what a tragedy
Anyway, I can't see how it's strictly relevant about knowledge of the march yesterday.
Not strictly relevant, but given the issue of conversion/coercion, not strictly irrelevant. Anyway, hard facts are not available, it could yet be a personal thing which other people with fiery agendas should just stay the hell out of. Let's hope we don't get another Lozells.
inders,
Catholicism is out, but Aum Shinrikyo would be legal, right?
Legally, you must be Church of England Protestant to sit on the throne of Britain.
Has the Taliban arrived in Birmingham?
An armed gang smashed its way into a house in the Birmingham suburb of Erdington in search of a teenage Sikh girl whom, it is suspected, they intended to force to convert to Islam.
The girl had been reported missing from her family home in West Bromwich a few days earlier. She is now under police protection.
“We would like to reassure the community that this lady is safe and well,” a spokesman for the West Midlands Police said.
An investigation was launched on May 25 following the aggravated burglary in Erdington when masked men broke into the house and threatened the occupants with weapons, possibly believing the girl was staying there. Police said no one was injured in the incident. “We are conducting inquiries into the motive for this attack,” the spokesman said. “We are not ruling the possibility this may be linked to a report received concerning the whereabouts of an 18-year-old female from West Bromwich, who was reported missing by her family. Her family are clearly concerned about her welfare as are the wider communities.”
A spokesman for Birmingham City Council said: “We are working closely with the police to deal with a number of sensitive issues being raised by members of the community and will be working together with other interested parties to consider the wider and longer term implications for the city.”
Intrestingly you instantly referred toapostasy which has nothing to do with this article, thread, post, etc.
Why is that?
I wanted more info on the march
Like what? A tiny number of Sikhs got together to protest against 'alleged forced conversions'. End of.
Jamal
Intrestingly you instantly referred to apostasy which has nothing to do with this article, thread, post, etc.
Jamal, judging by your website, I gather that you are (a) a champaign Islamist and (b) a bit dim.
Let me help you out: apostasy is not exclusive to Islam or Muslims.
In short: no.
The Taleban were/are an orthodox Sunni Muslim organisation operating in Afghanistan and its border with Pakistan.
When in power, they did things like destroy ancient Buddhist statues, make non-Muslims wear special clothing and relieve people of their heads. Chuck in a bit of stoning to death, chopping of hands and rape and this, in a nutshell, is the Taleban.
What any of this has to do with three random Sikh men breaking and entering into a Birmingham slum house I do not know. Care to enlighten me?
(just a suggestion)
Anyway, that is NOT what this topic is about.
Interesting story Sumayyah.
That supposition is mere speculation and hardly constitutes comparison with the Taleban, who were an organised government that implemented policy after policy of pure repugnance.
Are you saying three random Sikhs = the Taleban?
Ordinary people is my supposition. Who started off a grass roots revolution which then led to the Taliban (with a capital T).
If you take this view then these sikhs are no different to the taliban, imposing their 'sharia' parallel to the legitimate law.
How are these 3 sikhs, random ? Was there a random 100 sikhs marching today ? Were lots drawn ?
Who were the taliban composed of ?
The Taleban top brass were composed of feudal war lords and well known Afghan clansmen.
Not 'ordinary people' you come across every day.
If you take this view then these sikhs are no different to the taliban, imposing their ’sharia’ parallel to the legitimate law.
Even if you do 'take this view' then the parallel still falls pathetically short of any semblance of reality. Vigilantiism and the imposition of a religious law are two separate things.
How are these 3 sikhs, random?
Random in the sense of we know who the Taleban were; an organised, brutal and unequivocally Islamic government.
By comparison, these are just three Singhs.
I wasn't saying that the Taliban have come to Birmingham - I have simply posted an article about current events in Birmingham that is from the National Secular Society website.
Alternativly, they were a populist movement supported by the majority (initialy) because they stood for a heady mix of self governance and theocratic utopia.
Interestingly enough, in gudwara's up and down the West Midlands and the Gudwaras the same people who hand out flyers proclaiming that people's children are being raped they also hand out flyers about self governance and theocratic utopia.
Given that many of the Khalistanis pre and post-1984 tried to enforce their own law and still try to, my feeling is that while they openly try to distance themselves from the Taliban - those guys are probably not far from a rough model of what hardcore Khalistanis strive for.
You are a genius. You have found the key to unlock the whole puzzle.
Unconfirmed reports that three unknown Sikh men who allegedly broke into a house who supposedly have links to a number of unspecified Gurdwaras in the West Midlands who may or may not have links to the 1980s struggle for Khalistan who arbitrarily hand out literature speaking of rape, theocracy and utopia...
All of this, of course, equates said three men with the former government of Afghanistan.
I think that the FBI, CIA, MI5, West Midlands police and the government should immediately be informed of your findings and you should be awarded an OBE or a life peerage.
I salute you.
You make a point that has been made ad nauseum: Khalistanis are a Sikh version of the Taleban.
It is an inescapable fact that some Sikh groups (the Babbar Khalsa most notoriously) wanted a hardcore Sikh theocracy, something which I deplore. This is still far removed from a comparison of the Taleban IMHO.
But let us not digress.
Anyway, if this girl chooses islam its here choice and if she chooses to remain a sikh its her choice. Neither side should be compelling her.
If she was being forced by Muslims youd be up in arms, so lets have a little consistency now its seeks doing the forcing and marching.
As you said, "You either believe in freedom to choose religion or you don’t".
So should she have the choice to become/remain a Muslim and are these Sikhs wrong in marching against her use of her freedom of choice?
youll see theres more too it then just defecting from Islam.
What does that mean?
I'm not interested in this incident as to what te girl did... I'm interested in knowing who organised the march and what the truth of the matter is.
Nope. You can't be a Roman Catholic nor married to one (George IV nearly fell foul of this until the marriage was forcibly dissolved by his father). That's all. The C of E is, after all, both a Catholic and Protestant church due to a bit of canny compromising from Elizabeth I. Moreover, the monarch 'changes' religion when in Scotland to become figurehead of the Presbyterian Kirk.
More here on the Act of Settlement, seems reasonably accurate by Wiki standards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_Settlement_...
Only a few hardcore nutcases would defend this law now and since it's not really an issue (unless Charles or William converts, and that's not very likely - Charles seems more interested in Islam and Greek Orthodoxy, neither of which fall under under constitutional bar) no one's got round to changing it.
That said, it is unfair, and does piss off a few Catholics. The religious freedom bill suggested earlier in the thread does seem like a good idea, however. It could also, as another commentator suggested, be a good device for changing the Act of Succession.
>This is assuming we don't get a republic, my favoured option. Since there's no real demand for one, I'm happy to put up with dear old queenie.
In Sunny's defence (if you know me at all, this is most unlike me), you are misinterpreting him. However, given that you are clearly mentally challenged let me, once again, explain things to you.
if this girl chooses islam its here choice and if she chooses to remain a sikh its her choice.
Sunny didn't even dispute this view. Didn't even mention it.
If she was being forced by Muslims youd be up in arms
Yes. So would I and so would most other people. Wouldn't you?
You either believe in freedom to choose religion or you don’t
Sunny does. This is quite clear.
So should she have the choice to become/remain a Muslim and are these Sikhs wrong in marching against her use of her freedom of choice?
At least have the decency to read the thread. They were not marching against 'freedom of choice'. They were marching against 'alleged forced conversions' and 'aggressive Islamic evangelising'.
Why is propagating other religions prohibited in Islamic societies/countries/kingdoms? Are you that insecure?
The ruling on penalties for apostasy is not based upon the person defecting from Islam alone. In accordance with religious text and correct islamic jurisprudence, there are other conditions that must be met for a punishment, particularly death, to be handed down. Then there is the fact that there is mush disagreement over even this and many are of the opinion that it is actually Allah that must judge and punish one for this rather then man.
In other words, those that say apostasy is punishable by death are mistaken as there is no clear evidence of this being correct.
Im glad you support the girls right to convert, as do I (if this is what she has done). I think in considering the reasoning behind the march, this would include undeerstanding the actions of the girl and her reasons.
I suspect we will find that the reasons for the march and what the girls actually did is far different from what has been reported.
well if you read the article above youll read "a teenaged Sikh woman who is said to have DECIDED to convert to Islam.” Even if she was forced, since the police are involved, what would a silly march by 100 people aim to achieve?
‘aggressive Islamic evangelising’.
what does that even mean. i live in a mainly non-christian area and today the preist from the local chuch pulled up on my road with a crowd of followers, handing out red baloons and shouting through a foghorn. there was no march against it.
Here we have a story where an armed gang breaks into a house in search of a girl. The Secular Society presumes it to be muslims in search of someone to convert; yet everyone else seems pretty sure that it was Sikhs who went in search of the girl.
When the facts may well be, and which may come out months later, are probably a boy & girl having fallen in love and nowhere to go or hide.
As for the Secular Society's post - its quite despicable in how they're reporting - included within an inference of paedophilia. Did anyone notice?
Couldn't get worse could it? A 'rational' organisation clearly feeling there is no need for facts when myths are there to be created.
Jamal - I wish you could have attempted to address the issues in your opening shot - which are almost entirely to do with truth and lies. And whatever flows from them in the current climate. Not waving flags. Its not a football match.
Beware of those who sell their deen for a small price
Strange thing - religion - but I suppose you have to find other ways to defend something when it is not based on any evidence.
Or is all this just code for 'one of our girls has been shagging one of their boys' ?
At any other time this would make a fine Bollywood movie!
Pretty much a code for that
The 'funniest' comment i've ever had in relation to these types of instances was a few years ago when similar 'outrage' was expressed over another conversion. A friend of a friend who'd normally be fairly vitriolic about the whole thing was surprisingly subdued, when i asked him why his responce was
'she was a munter'
which more or less sheds light on the entire thing.
You will only ever see men taking part in such demonstrations.
It is brilliant.
But I can't decide whether it is a spoof or serious?!
Hey, I've always suspected this is what the Keighley BNP/"Grooming" thing really was.
Osman, immediately after the prophets's death many Arab tribes revolted....so loved was Mohammed.
They were only put down by Abu Bakr after two years of bloodshed.
These wars are called the wars of the Apostates, and they set the tone for all that followed.
Islam isn't monolithic, but that's where all it's pretty coloured threads lead back to; a tapestry-decked room with no exit door.
No way over it, around it, or under it.
This rabble are from a tiny Gurdwara at the top end of Soho Road, opposite the Lidl store, who are on a mission to be fools. I wouldnt pay attention. Sikh Fed types throwing toys out of the pram again.
Muslim Fundamentalists aka Salafists are not necessarily pro-terrorism as Islamic Jihadists or "Islamists" are more likely to be. I've been trying to get this nomenclatural difference across for years. But Shiv Malik does a good job of the definitions in this article.
Now, the world don't move to the beat of just one drum,
What might be right for you, may not be right for some.
A man is born, he's a man of means.
Then along come two, they got nothing but their jeans.
But they got, Diff'rent Strokes.
It takes, Diff'rent Strokes.
It takes, Diff'rent Strokes to move the world.
For the record, I'm a hardcore bacon-munching, gingerheaded, atheistic repository (or possibly suppository) of decadence, immorality and sin.
I only hang PP for all the sexy chicks. I'm hoping one or two of them might fancy a bit of conversion on the side.
(You might think I'm joking, but my missus is currently banged up in a virtual bungalow with Katy for 13 weeks. I need to take my chances where I find them.)
You've come to the right place.
Yes it is a good article as well as being quite sad.
Whilst I respect the choice to convert but often people are nudged into conversion I feel, so really the question is, is it a choice or a push or pull? You are who you are and conversion, though, in my opinion, is not real as such, people may do it, but you can't change who you are.
Jamal's words amaze me, mostly I juste feel they are fuelled with extremism. Does it really matter that one is Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, White or Black? Conversion is a fallacy, insecurity. I note one White female that converted, and she was, I believe preaching hatred. Now, that's no good. I urge people not to take the law into their own hands.
makes a lot of sense also given what i saw at uni
Agreed!
And Jamal only exists to find examples of Islamophobia. After all, he found 'Zion' in the Olympics logo.
"There’s no point talking to Muzumdar. He’s officially banned. When he occasionally says something intelligent, I let the comment slide."
Either he is banned or he is not. Letting comments through because you are happy with them is dangerous. The risk is of course he might end up being perceived as talking for you - an extreme side of you of course.
Why?
Who'd have thought we'd end up with home-nurtured fascists crying out for freedom?
And also i worry about Islamist evangelism. It is a rising problem and think it should not be tolerated. You dont see Buddhists going around converting people or others from other religions, why do Muslims?
As far as I'm aware, only Christianity and Islam proseletyze at all. The other major religions don't seem to want converts.
I've got to join the bandwagon and sincerely thank you for posting the link to Shiv Malik's article in your comment #53.
It's absolutely superb -- and yes, also very sad. The article should be required reading for anyone wanting to understand what motivated the 7/7 bombers and what drives many modern-day Islamic extremists in the UK who are from a 2nd-generation British Pakistani background.
It also makes your heart break for their bewildered families.
groomed conversions by coercion do
They've been around for about 17 years now --- they are called Islamist fundamentalists and they blow themselves up on buses and trains and lots of people are soft, tacit apologists for them Refresh.
By the way, Islamophobia watch is pretty demented --- they've actually featured Sunny as an Islamophobic bigot too I think. Wankers.
Also go look at Searchlight.
Come try my stress tester...
convert or die. WTF
Jo bole so Nihaal
HANUMAN IS A MACHOD
http://birminghambnp.blogspot.com/2007/06/yeste...
I don’t know who you are but if you’re a Muslim then please stop what your doing, in the Quran its says “Call to the way of your lord with wisdom and the best of arguments” and in the time of the prophet his companion Abu bakr out of anger said to the idol worshippers “suck the (sexual organ) of Uzzah (uzzah was a idol that was worshipped) and the prophet rebuked him saying do not revile their gods as they will then revile allah. As you can see people are now insulting allah and his messenger on this thread, I can appreciate your angry, your not the only one, if you want to do something to defend Islam then seek knowledge and use that knowledge in your arguments (Wisdom and the best of arguments).
As for anyone else, cheap insults don’t add strength to your arguments, so if there is to be a sincere discussion then it should be based on real arguments with etiquette of civilised debate.
You are really a fucked up person. You do know that, don't you?
Anyway, are you a God fearing Christian? I think we ought to be told.
This is a thread that has descended into ignorance, stupidity and Martin.